About Attending Those Invalid Weddings, Oh the Condemnation!

Stacy T

Hi, I'm Stacey Trasancos.

Stacy F

And I'm Stacey Farquharson.

Stacy T

Today we're going to be talking about attending non-Catholic weddings. Non-Catholic, however you want to define that, whether it's people completely outside the church or which is more the issue for a lot of Catholics, if you have someone who's a baptized Catholic but is not practicing and decides to have a wedding and you're a practicing Catholic, do you go or not go? Yes. Catholics argue about that. I did not even know that was something Catholics argue about. We're going to talk about that more later after our Scripture reflection, though. We always want to start our podcast with a reflection on the Scripture today so that we're thinking and reading and praying with the Church.

Stacy F

Yeah, because as we were talking the other day, I guess a couple of days ago, that St. Ambrose and St. Augustine encouraged us to read the Holy Scriptures, because when we do, God speaks to us. So let's start out with prayer and then we'll get going. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Amen. Lord, thank you for giving us a new day. We ask that you guide us through this day and that you direct our steps. And once again, Lord, we ask that you open the eyes of our understanding that we would comprehend the Scriptures and that you would give us fresh eyes to see you and ears to hear. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Stacy T

Amen.

Stacy F

Okay. And as I do each day, I want to encourage you to be sure and read it for yourself. But today what really jumped out at me was in the responsorial psalm, and not so much the psalm, but in what we repeat in the response. So I'm going to read the whole thing, but then we're going to unpack it a little bit. Okay? So do not forget the works of the Lord. Harken my people to my teaching and climb your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable. I will utter mysteries from of old. Do not forget the works of the Lord. While he slew them, they sought Him and inquired after God, again remembering that God was their rock and the most High God their Redeemer. Do not forget the works of the Lord. But they flattered Him with their mouths and lied to Him with their tongues, though their hearts were not steadfast toward Him, nor were they faithful to his covenants. Do not forget the works of the Lord. But he being merciful forgave their sin and destroyed them. Not often he turned back his anger and let none of his wrath be roused. Do not forget the works of the Lord. So guess what part really jumped out at me?

Stacy T

Do not forget the works of the Lord.

Stacy F

f that movie was finished. At: 06:00

Stacy T

It became a huge campus.

Stacy F

Struggling marriages, how to Fireproof the War Room, that was about praying for marriages. There was one called courageous. There's been several. There's actually one coming out next week, I believe. But what I read about them was how they journeyed through and how they covered everything in prayer and how they took so many steps of faith. But what really inspired me was what I call their wall of remembrance. There was a hallway in their office where they actually hung prayer needs, prayer requests and answered prayers. There are pictures, and it's like when they were struggling with something, like they didn't know how they were going to overcome an obstacle. They would go down this hallway and they would say, look, remember when we needed this and God came through? Remember how he came through there? Oh, and look at this picture here. Remember how we were praying about this situation? And here, remember how God solved that problem for us, how he brought us through? And by the time they finished walking down that hallway, they were so inspired, and their faith was so built. They were like, yes, God's going to come through for us today. And I think that's why when I was reading this, don't forget what I've done for you. I just felt like I journal. That's my way of remembering. It may be something different for you, but I just truly felt like the Lord wanted to remind us not to forget what he's done and maybe even sit back and take some time to travel down memory lane with the Lord, walk down that hallway with the Lord and ask Him to bring to your remembrance what he's done for you. Take some time to thank Him for all the times he's provided for you, delivered you. Remove those obstacles out of the way. I'm always amazed in the Old Testament, and when we read about the children of Israel and how God brought them out of Egypt, I mean, they witnessed all those plagues. They witnessed how God parted the Red Sea and how amazing that was to be. Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine a wall of water on each side of you? It says that they passed through on dry land. I mean, the wagon wheels didn't get bogged down in the mud. They passed through a dry land. Their shoes didn't wear out. On that journey, that long journey, god provided food and water in the desert. Time and time again, he provided for them. But time and time again, they complained and wanted to return to Egypt. It's like they forgot all these amazing things that he had done for them. So I just don't want to be like that. I don't want that yet. I want to remember all that God has done so I can continue to build my faith and be encouraged and encourage other people, too. I don't know what I'm going to face today. I don't know what the rest of the day holds for me. I don't know what tomorrow holds. But whatever challenges come my way, I know I'm not facing them alone.

Stacy T

Right.

Stacy F

It doesn't mean it's going to be easy. But I know God is with me and I know he's faithful and I know he will be with you also.

Stacy T

That's why I love chemistry so much, because I know, but I'm serious. And I tell people that I'm like adults, if you want to boost your faith, bolster your faith, come take my chemistry class. Because I know what's going on with the atoms. I know something about what's going on with the Adams. And just whenever I'm losing my faith a little bit and I think about the works of the Lord. So I do have, like you, some specific instances where he's answered my prayers. But even just what it takes to hold our bodies together in our life, for our heart to beat one more time, for us to take one more breath, god is holding us in existence. And we forget to thank God for how faithful he is. That we see the sun come round every morning, that we see the leaves turn their colors in the fall. Well, not so much in Texas. And we see these things in nature happening according to the laws of nature that God ordained, and they just keep happening. The air is there for you to breathe, and we don't even have to think about it. Our hearts just beat and we don't have to think about it. But God knows all of that and he keeps it coming back every heartbeat. I'm here.

Stacy F

Absolutely. It's like we take things for granted and we need to stop.

Stacy T

And they are granted.

Stacy F

Yeah, they are granted. They are granted. Praise God. They're granted.

Stacy T

Yeah. Well, thank you, Stacey, for reading that. And I love two things about what you were saying. I love all of it, but two things jumped out when we repeat the Psalms in the church. Like, if you're a Protestant and you come into the church, you're a non-believer. Like, I was coming to church. It's kind of weird how they just keep repeating that line because you're like, oh, that's something I can do. I can keep repeating that I know what I'm doing here. But it is to sync it in to sync in the point don't forget. Don't forget. And it is beautiful. And I also appreciate getting into the topic for today that you're describing something that people who are not Catholics were doing. That was so right. I mean, we're going to talk about this issue with wedding. So a while back on my Facebook page, you can look at it. Stacy Trasancos; it's just my personal profile. I posted something about I had some friends who were concerned because they have kids. Just to describe the situation very quickly, they have adult children who, like many of us, they're not Stacy and I've talked about this, are not practicing Catholics, and they want to get married. And so they were baptized Catholic, raised in the Catholic faith, but are deciding not to have a Catholic marriage, not a Sacramento marriage, marrying a non-Catholic, getting married out a Catholic, getting married outside the Catholic Church just because they've kind of decided they don't really care what the Catholic Church says. And the question for parents is, do you attend that wedding or not? And I have no idea that was even a discussion. I just kind of assumed all along, like, well, that would be a hard decision. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. But then there's a group of very faithful. Very conservative. Very traditional Catholics. And I understand that they're very sincere in what they believe. Who are saying that it is a dogmatic truth of the Church that no parent is allowed to attend a wedding of a child. Even any wedding of a child who is a Catholic that's turned his or her back on the Church and is getting married outside the Church to someone else. Not allowed to attend. And that's what came into controversy because several of us asked several priests, ask several canon lawyers, ask several other people who would know about this thing, the Church has not ruled on that. The Church has not said, you are forbidden to go. Now, people will read the laws of the Church about marriage and the sanctity of holy matrimony and say, given these things, you ought not go. And they apply that across the board. Dogmatically. But it's not dogma. It is not dogma. It is not a defined teaching of the Church. What it is it falls into, like so many things in these messy lives of ours, it falls into something we call prudential judgment. Prudential judgment means you have to practice prudence. And we're not going to get into that right now. But that is an entire topic unto itself. Prudence doesn't mean anything you think goes prudence does not mean that. Prudence means you need to have an informed consent and you need to pray about your decision. Prayer is very important in practicing authentic prudence. You need to pray. You need to listen to what God is saying, and you need to make a decision based on the circumstances in your life at that time. This is not situational ethics. It is prudence. Because the Church it would be nice if the Church gave us a checklist and we've talked about this, Stacey. This is what you need to do to be a good Catholic, because I'd be like, Throw it all down. I'm in. I'm going to do everything on that checklist, but life isn't like that. And this is very much an area where you practice Prudence. So I think that's on. We'll put the link to the Facebook debate that went on, but, oh my gosh, so many people have written to me and called me and texted me saying, this is damaging. The dogmatism of these people is damaging because anybody looking. And I had people who aren't Catholics, they read that thread and they're like, man, I would never be Catholics.

Stacy F

Oh, my goodness. Absolutely. I can tell you, when I came into the Catholic Church, I'm already guarded. Right? I have what I believe to be the truth. I don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And when I first went to.

Stacy T

Start.

Stacy F

An RCI program, but I left there because I felt kind of judged. I felt looked down on, and I was like, I don't want to do this. I walked away from that. Now, that is when I ended up being what I called in limbo, because I knew too much to go backwards. But I didn't want to move forward. I didn't want to. I was like, no. And it wasn't until I ended up in another RCI class and I went to that one even more guarded. I was wanting to protect myself. I was defensive when I went there. And our breakout leader was so amazing. It didn't matter what question I asked. It didn't matter how much I argued with him or how much proof I demanded. He would just smile and speak the truth and lie. He's straightened me out on a lot of issues, but the way he did it, I never felt I never felt discouraged. He never talked to me in a condescending tone. He never talked down to me. He allowed me to process. He created a safe environment that allowed me to express my concerns and frustrations, and he allowed me to process. And he just showed me so much grace that I felt welcomed, and I felt loved and I felt supported. And I don't know that I would have come into the Church had I felt sometimes in both Protestant and Catholic, there's people in the church that keep people out of the church. I mean, that's just the way it is. I think about that story in the Bible, the woman that was caught in adultery, and it says in there that they brought her to Jesus, and they told her that she had been caught in the very act she was obviously guilty. She had been caught in the very act of committing adultery, and the law said she needed to be stoned. Now, in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. What do you say? They said to Jesus? And he bends down, he starts riding with his finger on the ground, and.

Stacy T

I can't imagine that.

Stacy F

I wonder what he was writing. He straightens up and he says to them, let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. And then he starts riding in the ground again with his finger. And I've always wondered what he was writing. I always wondered if maybe he was writing down their sins. But he goes on to say, they leave. They leave one by one. And Jesus stands up and he says, Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? And she says, no, sir. And Jesus says to her, neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on, do not sin again. He didn't condemn her. And I just feel like this is such a beautiful story of the goodness of God, the love of God, the kindness of God that leads men to repentance. I wonder if they thought he condoned adultery because he didn't agree with them to have her stoned. I mean, it might have looked like that to some of them. I'm thankful as I'm saying this, I'm thinking back over my past, right, going through my mind right now of things that I've done. And I am so thankful that God is not bound by law but moved by love.

Stacy T

Not bound by law, but moved by love. And I think that's what was missing. And several people said this to me, people who were afraid to say anything in the Facebook fiasco that said it privately, like, there's not love there. These people are condemning because a lot of them were saying, this is a mortal sin. If you parents go to the wedding of your child who's a baptized Catholic, but who is marrying outside the church, if you go to that wedding, you're giving testimony that you approve of turning your back on God, which is not true. That's not why parents go. That's not even what's in their mind. But they're saying, if you do that. So it's flawed logic. If you go, I know what's in your heart. You're going because you really think it's okay to turn your back on God, nothing to do with love of your children. You're just turning your back on God and turning your back on God. So that's how the logic goes. It's invalid logic. By doing that, you're turning your back on God. You're telling your kids it's okay to turn your back on God. You're telling everybody who's there it's okay to turn your back on God. And that is immortal sin. That is actually a mortal sin.

Stacy F

But that's not what the parents are doing.

Stacy T

And they tell these parents, you're in mortal sin. This is a real story. Not only are the parents already aggrieved because they're happy their child found love and is working towards building a family, they want to go and support and keep the relationship and the love and the guidance going beyond the wedding date, but they're already, like, conflicted. And then they hear another dogmatic Catholic, a Catholic who makes up their own dogma on their own, they hear another Catholic say, oh, you're in immortal sin. You need to confess that if you're a mortal sin and you die, you go to hell. So they're basically telling them you're going to hell.

Stacy F

Yeah.

Stacy T

If you're a convert. Because I have been in that exact situation, like, I'm trying like everything I'm building my relationship with God and with Mary, and some overly dogmatic Catholic comes along and scolds me for something that I didn't even know was wrong. And forget love, forget mercy, forget the journey of faith, forget the works of the Lord. Yeah, forget the works of the Lord that he's merciful and forgive sin and doesn't turn his anger into wrath. Forget all that. It's like they want to control you. It's like they're manipulating you. And that was hard for me. And I actually thought for a while to be a good Catholic, I had to be that same way, and I was that same way to my children. And while I'm not blaming anyone, I take full responsibility for all my choices. When I thought to be a good Catholic meant to be like that, I did harm to my own family. And so one reason I really speak up about it is because I don't want other people to think that you got to act that way to be a good Catholic. You don't know.

Stacy F

In fact, that's what I was saying a minute ago. When Jesus didn't condemn her, he didn't agree with them that she needed to be stoned. Did that mean he was condoning her act?

Stacy T

No.

Stacy F

That she was caught in? No. He was showing grace. He was showing love and loving her and showing her that grace was more important to him than the letter of the law. God doesn't wait for us to get good enough for Him. It says in Romans five that God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. He knows we can't be perfect. That's why we need him. He loves us right where we are. There is no sin bigger than his sacrifice.

Stacy T

And you don't have to be perfect to earn God's love.

Stacy F

We can't. And that's the thing. We don't have to earn God's love. God is love. He just loves. There's nothing I can do today there's nothing I can do today to make God love me more. There's nothing I can do today to make God love me less. God loves me. He loves me not to give His Son for me.

Stacy T

Right? And like the psalms you were reading, we don't need to flatter Him with our mouths. We just need to hold our hearts steadfast towards Him. We need to keep trying. I posted on Facebook about mine and my husband's invalid marriage because my husband was a baptized Catholic, but he was marrying filthy old me. I wasn't even, like, a different denomination because all the time is not a denomination, but in Protestantism, there are denominations. I wasn't even Protestant. I was nothing. And my husband married me, and our in laws were his parents were at that wedding. But what I don't take away from it 20 years later, that's how long we've been married, is that they were witnesses to my sin. No, they loved me in my sin. They were like Christ to me, because they came there, and they laughed and they celebrated us. They celebrated the fact that we were trying to build something good, and they believed in us. And that had a big role to play in my conversion. Three years later, when I was received into the Church, they were there because on the very same day, we celebrated the sacrament of matrimony, because I said, I want to do this, as that is priority number one. We're going to celebrate. I understand now.

Stacy F

Right.

Stacy T

I would have never come to understand if they had just said, we cannot be at your wedding because our son is marrying you. Filthy woman. They would have condemned me and walked away, and I would have probably I don't know what I would have done. But knowing how I was then, like, I wasn't super arrogant back then. I was really seeking the truth. I just didn't know. I wrote this on Facebook. One of the things that spoke loudest to me. Stacey, it's so sweet. They have now been married 62 years, and they're in their 90s. They always are holding hands whenever you see them. If they're sitting on the couch together.

It is to become one. The sacrament. There is a grace there that's palpable. And they're always like that to each other. They are always so respectful to each other. They come first for each other. And I just remember telling Jose, I want that.

Stacy F

Yeah. And you know what, Stacey? When you were saying that if they had condemned you initially, it would have been hard for you to receive the things that they said later on. People don't care what you know until they know that you care.

Stacy T

Yeah.

Stacy F

So they showed you love, grace, mercy. They loved you. And so later, when they were able to pour into you, you were more receptive of that, and you listened, and you received because you knew they were speaking from that place of love.

Stacy T

Yep.

Stacy F

And we've said, I trust you. All through that season one, we said multiple times, rules without relationship result in rebellion.

Stacy T

Write it down, memorize it's true. Stacy, when you said that to me the first time during our season one, I kept thinking back on my life. That's exactly why trying to adopt this super strict, traditional, overly dogmatic. When I say overly dogmatic, we absolutely need to conform our will to will of God in mind. But when people make up dogmas that the Church hasn't even declared and say, you're going to hell if you don't do it. What those people are really doing is playing God. And I used to think and what they're doing is not practicing prudence. They're trying to do everybody else's thinking for them. They're trying to tell you what's prudent, which the very virtue of prudence means. You don't do that. You respect the human dignity and the path that other humans are on. But when I adopted that practice, this is my checklist of what the church teaches. And I know because I looked it up, and right here on this blog post, this Catholic said this, and therefore, this is what you have to do. When I acted like that as a mother raising my kids because I was trying to teach my kids the faith, that attitude did harm because I had rules. And I sacrificed some relationship along the way. Even when my daughter Abigail, who's now pregnant, we've been praying for her and her baby and Amais when Abigail, when she didn't want to go to the Catholic Church anymore, she's like, I don't want to go because I know what they think is wrong. I'm clear on that. I got all the rules. I got it. I just don't know what they love. And that broke my heart. And it's a path and a journey to show her that now to make up for that. But that kind of thinking is so damaging now. It may work for some people and their families. It may work. Rules without relationship does not work in my family, right?

Stacy F

And it doesn't work in mine either. But you know what you said it may work for some because everyone's different, right? And that goes back to exactly what you said in the very beginning. Every situation is different. Every family dynamic is different. We don't know why they're choosing to get married outside the church or to not be Catholic. We don't know the hurts, the wounds that they have. We don't know God's plan. We see in this moment. We don't see the end from the beginning like God does. We don't see the future. So all we can do in this moment is to love like he tells us to.

Stacy T

Yes.

Stacy F

And we have to use, like you said, judgment. We have to look at everything we do know, and we know the heart of our children. I mean, if we're talking about parents not going to their children's wedding or a family member's wedding or friends, we have to look at the whole picture, the picture that we know. And it's easy for somebody who is outside of our little bubble, outside of our intimate circle here, to pass judgment, because all they're doing is looking at the little boxes they're checking off, but they don't know. I know I always go back to Scripture, but it's like when God wanted to anoint David as King and he sent Samuel to anoint David as King and Samuel. Was going to anoint the wrong person. He was going to anoint the guy that looked like he would be the best candidate. And God told him, you look up the outward appearance, I look at the heart. I look at the heart, and as well as I know you, Stacey, as well as I know my husband, as well as I think I know my kids, there are things in their hearts that I don't know. There are things in their heart that only God knows. And I pray for them. I pray and pray and pray. But at the end of the day, I have to trust the Lord, because he sees their heart and he knows exactly what they need, and he knows exactly when they're going to get it. And I am going to do my part. And I love them.

Stacy T

And you do it so well. I think it's good to end on the same note. We started with scripture, living scripture, always speaking to us. If you're struggling with these things, do as the psalms today repeatedly told us to do. Do not forget the works of the Lord. Look over your own lives and be thankful for all that God has done and keep your heart steadfast toward Him. I'm Stacey Trasancos.

Stacy F

And I'm Stacey Farquharson. Until next time.